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Home » misc » Lance Armstrong Open Thread

Lance Armstrong Open Thread

October 11, 2012 By Gregor Winter

Lance ArmstrongJust listened to this morning’s BBC Global News podcast.

There Lance’s Lawyer reacts to the new allegations  (at 4:15 in).

Apparently 11 of his former team mates provided ‘evidence’ of drug use.

USADA said Lance Armstrong was at heart of ‘sophisticated doping ring’.

His lawyer says he has not even had a chance to look at the charges.

Speak your mind.

Filed Under: misc

About Gregor Winter

Hi, I run ATG.

Follow me on instagram @gregorwinter (and ATG @atginsta).

Comments

  1. Kevin says

    October 11, 2012 at 13:11

    I tried to write something intelligent, but it would be unnecessary. The DA is a worthless bunch whose only sliver of success was found beating a dead horse.

  2. mrtn86 says

    October 11, 2012 at 13:44

    i am surprised, the usada take such consistent, drastic measures. think that should be an example for other sports and agencies.

    • GregorATG says

      October 11, 2012 at 13:46

      Yeah, the resources they pour into this are mind boggling.

      • Kyle Schuant says

        October 15, 2012 at 06:58

        The resources put into anti-doping are considerably less than all the prizemoney and endorsements involved in these sports.

  3. rger41 says

    October 11, 2012 at 15:27

    The political wrangling of whose money was spent on which investigation, with cooperation from what other organizations being moot, I think that weightlifting and power sports in general can use this investigation as a mirror. If you have the time, go to http://www.usada.org and read the Reasoned Decision document for greater context of the investigation’s findings.

    What is most troubling to me is not that some people on some team cheated by using oxygen vector doping, augmented by steroids and hgh, to win races, even big races. It doesn’t even bother me that they did so under well-paid medical supervision. The sickest detail revealed by the sum of these affidavits is that after all the rah-rah, go-get-’em, character-building teachable moments provided in developmental cycling when these men were kids, juniors, and then espoir athletes of varying caliber, the fruit of their commitment and the commitment of those supporting them was to dump them in a (professional) scenario where the choice to cheat with drugs was hardly a choice at all. Like saying to high-level young musicians graduating from Julliard: “OK, now to make anything of yourself, you are going to have to start using heroin and methamphetamines immediately, because all great musicians use these for creativity and energy and you will amount to a pile of unfulfilled promise if you do not as well.” Then the Don of this doping culture on the American side is touted as a God in man’s clothing for well over a decade, and everyone and their dog has one of those yellow wristbands saying cancer sucks and somehow everything is alright.

    Weightlifting, take heed. When former administration of the UCI will be shown to be complicit in this entire debacle, and indeed, the current administration to similar ongoing programs in professional cycling, realize that every block-shouldered, acned, vascular woman with a mustache breaking a weightlifting world record is just another mark against your sport in the eyes of the world. Every parent on the fence about getting in touch with a local cycling club for their son is now back on the ground.

    • Anon says

      October 11, 2012 at 22:49

      Great post buddy.

  4. Joe says

    October 11, 2012 at 15:28

    I don’t think anyone would be surprised if lance did take stuff. But there is no way the guys he was competing against weren’t on something themselves. A bit hypocritical of the guys testifying against him that claim they weren’t on something. The guy in my mind is one of the sporting greats. Drugs or not.

    • Kyle Schuant says

      October 15, 2012 at 06:56

      Before responding to something, it’s usually best to actually read or listen to it.

      The guys testifying against him aren’t claiming they were clean. In fact, it’s many of his former team-mates, all saying, “yeah, it was all of us.”

  5. rger41 says

    October 11, 2012 at 15:34

    And I should add that all of the 11 current and former teammates of Armstrong implicated in this investigation IN ALL CASES implicated themselves as well. There is no one-way finger pointing in this investigation, and there will be reckoning in and out of the court of public opinion for all involved.

  6. sporting says

    October 11, 2012 at 15:57

    The tactfully forgotten aspect of sports. Drugs are as big a part of professional sports as talent, mental fortitude and training.

  7. rger41 says

    October 11, 2012 at 16:09

    It would additionally not be very surprising to learn that despite the depth of accusations brought forth by the affidavits and supporting evidence in this case, the implicated parties are probably hiding just as much again. Damage control. For instance, the same people involved with USPS/Discovery/Astana/Radioshack cycling trade teams were all working for teams prior to Mr. Armstrong, and it is rather convenient that everyone magically gave up the ghost when they were no longer under the spectre of Armstrong-related management and medical staff. When riders, managers and doctors begin talking about domestic North American doping, pre-1999 (teams like 7-Up, Coors, Motorola, Saturn, etc.) where many of these guys cut their teeth, then we can all talk about truth and reconciliation. Until then, remember that you are only hearing as much as they are saying.

  8. Cleanandderp says

    October 11, 2012 at 23:47

    This whole thing is a farce – the crucification of Lance hurts cycling far more than it helps. These 11 testifying against took the same compounds as did (do) a majority of cyclists. I think if these idiots want the real secret they should live with cancer – maybe after months on end of chemotherapy, riding a bike up a hill doesn’t seem so bad. The impression the media is gIving is that we’re all just an injection away from 7 Tour wins – I think that might be the most dangerous thing to come out of this

    • Luc Lapierre says

      October 12, 2012 at 09:21

      “The impression the media is giving is that we’re all just an injection away from 7 Tour wins – I think that might be the most dangerous thing to come out of this.”

      Well said!
      It’s astounding how quick some people are to almost completely diminish a lifetime of hard work and dedication and attribute the majority of a busted champion’s “unearned” success to drugs.
      Those same finger-pointers could take all the PED’s in the world and still not even be able to come second-to-last in an event such as the Tour.

      • rger41 says

        October 12, 2012 at 21:18

        It takes a crucifixion to draw awareness to the depth of this topic. The concern of these “idiots” likely stems in part from their love for sport and it’s many positive benefits on people of all ages and abilities; the most dangerous thing to come of this is not the deprecation of Armstrong’s lifetime of hard work and dedication, nor that of anyone currently under investigation or those that are using who have escaped the specter of judgment for their choices. More dangerous is the fact that Armstrong et al. made a mockery of other, equally freakish physical specimens (clean or not) who similarly put in a lifetime of hard work and dedication, in the largest, most lucrative races in the world of professional cycling.

        It was a frequent lament during this year’s tour that “we didn’t see the explosive attacking and successful suicide mountain-stage breakaways like when Armstrong/Pantani/Ullrich/Virenque were riding”. Well no sh*t you didn’t, because when you group 180 of the most elite endurance cyclists together in the same pack for 21 days, there is very little that separates them in terms of raw physical ability. They are all mutants to begin with, only after being accustomed to seeing physiologically impossible performances on a regular basis (see previous list), being a regular mutant just isn’t enough to wow the crowds anymore.

        Worst case scenario: every professional ProTour team has a regimented and institutionalized doping program, and this has been the case since the beginning of time. Fine. There are thousands upon thousands of talented athletes who made a concrete decision early in their careers not to cheat, and in turn, it is them who have been cheated out of a potential career as a professional. That is the most dangerous thing to come of this all: the sense of hopelessness in very hard working, very talented athletes that “wow, no matter what I do, I am getting waxed”. How do you think lifetime clean weightlifters in the U.S. or Canada feel when, after a decade or more of high-level competition, they are getting beat by 10-15% on the international stage. Just as in cycling, if you think that it is because they didn’t train hard enough, long enough, and take their vitamins, you are extremely naive.

        And for the record, in the mid to late 90’s I raced on a few occasions against Levi Leipheimer in northern California as a Class 1 racer, and sure, he was good, but he was just a liable to be dropped in a hard echelon or gapped in a break as anyone else at what could be considered the domestic pro level (which is barely a subsistence existence for most). Even if he is an outlier in terms of positive performance response from PED use, there are hundreds of men who could come awfully close to his palmeres would they make that same, selfish choice to cheat. Again, just as in power sports, unless you have either been on gear or watched someone close to you develop while on it, you have no idea what you are talking about.

    • Kyle Schuant says

      October 15, 2012 at 07:01

      If you can find us a single article anywhere that says that, I’ll be interested to read it.

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